What is not touched on is what “belief” even is. I guess maybe there’s stuff that I choose to believe, like I guess I choose to believe that there is more good than evil in the world or that people who are not me are also humans and not my imagination. But those things also make sense to me and they match how I experience the world. When people bring up Pascal’s wager they’re essentially making a “you can’t win the lottery if you don’t buy a ticket” argument. But that’s not belief or faith, it’s just a technicality. If I don’t believe in a god or an afterlife, it’s because I CANT. Nothing in my life supports the idea.
If I do believe, it’s because “god” has revealed him/her/itself to me in some way, whether supernaturally or in that “still, small voice” that one of the prophets spoke about. That has nothing to do with going to church or joining “the club” (though going to church etc might be how you give form to that faith and how you reconnect with it, and that’s great).
Faith isnt a bargain or an insurance policy. And if god is as omnipotent as they say then surely he/she/they/it would know when you’re just going through the motions as a contingency plan. I’d think any god worth worshipping would prefer an honest, self reflective atheist than a regular churchgoer who cynically performs faith “just in case it’s not all bullshit”. And I’d think any hell that exists would have a special place for someone who tried to fool god.
Pascal’s wager may have been how Pascal navigated his own journey of faith rather than an argument for why other people should believe. But when used as a (not very effective) tool for conversion it’s a political tool, not a spiritual one. It’s a tool of intimidation and threat, not a message of love. It’s about pushing an earthly agenda, not concern for one’s soul.
“If you lust after a woman and you don't repent, then there's a chance that you might not make it into the kingdom of God”. Really? Well, that finishes me off. I spend somewhere around 93.2 per cent of my life lusting after women of various races, nationalities, and appearances.
I read Pascal this time last year when I went on a cruise with my partner. The book in which he introduces the Wager is interesting to be sure, but on reflection yes, there are issues which of course you know about.
Of course if I spend my whole life following Christ ‘as if’ I am a Christian, trying hard to love God and to ‘believe’, and there is no God, I have indeed lost a great deal. A chance to lead an authentic life of my own, as a painter, poet, playwright if you like instead of following a god that proves to be nonexistent. But how do you ‘make’ yourself love someone? What if ‘pretending’ starts out as pretending and never moves to actual love, despite your best efforts?
But what I found myself thinking is that Pascal’s wager could be an argument for believing in any deity, and I imagined a conversation between a father and son , both New Guinea tribesmen, where the son doesn’t believe in the gods of his father so his father introduces the wager to get his son to try and follow the New Guinea deities. The Wager is nonsense. But it’s interesting. Have a great day!
What is not touched on is what “belief” even is. I guess maybe there’s stuff that I choose to believe, like I guess I choose to believe that there is more good than evil in the world or that people who are not me are also humans and not my imagination. But those things also make sense to me and they match how I experience the world. When people bring up Pascal’s wager they’re essentially making a “you can’t win the lottery if you don’t buy a ticket” argument. But that’s not belief or faith, it’s just a technicality. If I don’t believe in a god or an afterlife, it’s because I CANT. Nothing in my life supports the idea.
If I do believe, it’s because “god” has revealed him/her/itself to me in some way, whether supernaturally or in that “still, small voice” that one of the prophets spoke about. That has nothing to do with going to church or joining “the club” (though going to church etc might be how you give form to that faith and how you reconnect with it, and that’s great).
Faith isnt a bargain or an insurance policy. And if god is as omnipotent as they say then surely he/she/they/it would know when you’re just going through the motions as a contingency plan. I’d think any god worth worshipping would prefer an honest, self reflective atheist than a regular churchgoer who cynically performs faith “just in case it’s not all bullshit”. And I’d think any hell that exists would have a special place for someone who tried to fool god.
Pascal’s wager may have been how Pascal navigated his own journey of faith rather than an argument for why other people should believe. But when used as a (not very effective) tool for conversion it’s a political tool, not a spiritual one. It’s a tool of intimidation and threat, not a message of love. It’s about pushing an earthly agenda, not concern for one’s soul.
“If you lust after a woman and you don't repent, then there's a chance that you might not make it into the kingdom of God”. Really? Well, that finishes me off. I spend somewhere around 93.2 per cent of my life lusting after women of various races, nationalities, and appearances.
I read Pascal this time last year when I went on a cruise with my partner. The book in which he introduces the Wager is interesting to be sure, but on reflection yes, there are issues which of course you know about.
Of course if I spend my whole life following Christ ‘as if’ I am a Christian, trying hard to love God and to ‘believe’, and there is no God, I have indeed lost a great deal. A chance to lead an authentic life of my own, as a painter, poet, playwright if you like instead of following a god that proves to be nonexistent. But how do you ‘make’ yourself love someone? What if ‘pretending’ starts out as pretending and never moves to actual love, despite your best efforts?
But what I found myself thinking is that Pascal’s wager could be an argument for believing in any deity, and I imagined a conversation between a father and son , both New Guinea tribesmen, where the son doesn’t believe in the gods of his father so his father introduces the wager to get his son to try and follow the New Guinea deities. The Wager is nonsense. But it’s interesting. Have a great day!
If you are going to talk about something it would be best to start with a definition.
A g-o-d is one who makes rules for others. Self-worship would involve making your own rules.
If you want to follow a god’s laws you live-by them [ by-live ]. If you reject a god’s laws [ a tyrant ] you do not live-by them.
People following different gods [ beliefs ] will conflict. The gods are at war.
“For though there be many that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth ( as there be gods many and lords many)”…